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143930-ampability-grind-too-much
Content ---- ---- ---- Um, gear upgrades are essential to progression...and a lot easier to come by. | |} ---- AP are a bit essential depending on what a raid group wants form you, but you can get by (though you'll be much further behind). But yeah, you can still perform just fine and get the job done. Edited October 18, 2015 by Xiun | |} ---- You didn't read my post.. :P | |} ---- ---- I haven't gotten a character past level 26 yet, but I've found 3 of the bonus AMPs as world drops and I got one from doing path missions. I'm sort of inclined to think this might be the case? | |} ---- ---- You're right, their everywhere - thus, it'll become more and more expected for guilds to require it. Also, whether 80 hours is a lot is relative how long other pre-raid content in this game takes. Getting from fresh 50 to ilvl78-80 takes maybe 30 hours tops whereas getting ability points/amps takes closer to 80. Relative to the gear progression, the ability/amp progression is nuts. You can say that their not needed for any content, but that's like saying a certain ilvl isn't needed for GA. Nothing is "needed", but optimization in a character is always "wanted". New players are going to bang their head against this element of progression and become frustrated, not because it's challenging, but because it's funneling people into a relatively LONG grind and into PVP which they may or may not have the desire to do. If it was more difficult and was meant as marginal progression as you say, then fine - make it marginal progression and don't offer a path to power through it (PVP). Keep it to the alternative "casual" route I mentioned in my OP. I feel like most of the people commenting on this are not going through this grind right now or already did it eons ago via the "casual" route. Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- ---- Grind is fine. However, when you have two equally important pieces of progression having wildly different amounts of time-investment required is off-putting to new players. Also, the content that you utilize to achieve the end-result being far more limited. Pre-raid ilvl80 gear: Variety of dungeons, while doing expeditions/shiphands along the way. 30hr tops time investment Amps/abilities: PVP, PVP, PVP, PVP. 80 hours || Dailies, Gold Medals, Path, etc 2-3 months | |} ---- ---- I don't think your numbers are accurate since it seems like the time investments for those things has changed. I think either one of the signature bonuses or cosmic rewards is a bonus to rep gains so that's another boost to speed there. If this thread took place 2-3 months from now I might believe you were speaking from a point of personal relevance rather than exaggeration. | |} ---- Im speaking from doing the dailies everyday since F2P launch and only beginning to break esteemed and even IF my estimation is off, those daily rep rewards (Crimson Badlands, Northern Wastes, and Star-Comm Basin //excluding Defile/Blighthaven cause I didn't do them so I cant comment on them) represent 3/10 of your amp points. The PVP estimation is from grinding it out for 40 hours for 2x prestige and multiplying it by 2 assuming an individual was doing it doing normal prestige gain. Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- ---- It's not a fast track unless you're insane farming BG's. For casual players not spamming the living heck out of PvP you can get comparable drops + reward amps / abilities to the PvP ones. Honestly I'd even wager you could open world farm them in certain places faster than you could PvP them. And I guarantee that you could if you include farming for both drops AND plat to buy them. It's not inconsistent with endgame, its a seperate bonus system. Its not supposed to be like gearing or levelling. | |} ---- The bonuses are too dramatic to be considered separate. Having a extra T8 ability and 10 extra amps in a build is a significant "bonus". Also, on your plat note, ironically - PVP and a certain expedition are the fastest popular/known plat earners right now. Therefore, not only is PVP the most efficient route for abilities/amps but ALSO one of the most efficient routes for plat. I'd need to see drop rates but seeing as how I didn't get a single amp drop 1-50, I doubt it..and at most people are reporting 2-3 amps from 1-50, so I really don't think so. | |} ---- PvP is not anywhere near the most efficient route to farm plat. Certain expeditions are up there, but that only supports my point (as there are expedition mobs with points / tiers on their loot tables IIRC). To be clear, I'm not specifically referencing Shiphands/expeditions, but by your own admission farming them is a very quick way to get what you wan't with out PvP | |} ---- ---- ---- This is silly. I'm terrible at PvP and I've rolled plenty of players I know are running full Amp/Ability bonuses on my Alts. In PvP Gear can make a significant difference, but I've literally never been in a situation where I was at a substantive disadvantage because of Amp / Ability tiers. | |} ---- ---- What? One expedition in particular is good for plat. Also, PVP is insane for plat - I made nearly 30-40plat doing BG's this weekend: https://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/3p5qan/platinum_farming/ Is it the most efficient? No. Is it still a ton of plat? Yeah. It's a lot more than 3% life steal. The actual numbers for my Warrior are more like: Up to 20% critical hit severity Up to 7.5% armor pierce Up to 7.5% vigor And a T8 ability Everyone that commented on this has either done it throughout their progression over time or has yet to do it. This topic will return as more fresh 50's clash against it. Also, people that are commenting on this are not reading the entire thread, one last time for clarification: I do not care about whether or not you get them when you turn 50, all I'm saying is that it is out of proportion time investment wise with the rest of the endgame. It is a strange, long roadblock in the pre-raid grind. Most of the counter points to this statement have been developed out of a lack of reading this thread and/or being too distant from the grind itself. More people will be throwing themselves against this wall soon. | |} ---- Let's say it's a T3 amp (6 points) and a T2 amp (4 points) and I get Overwhelming Presence and Power Hitter Both apply empowers that grant up to 7.5% vigor and 20% critical hit severity (or apply combination of 10pt amps you didn't have before and it works out about the same) + you get a extra T8 ability or combination of T4 T4, etc. If it was mini-leveling, it wouldn't take 300% of the time as leveling does. (80 hours via PVP || Weeks-months of daily play through dailies, rep, EG, etc). | |} ---- ---- Are amp points even more than 5p each anymore? lol. Edited October 18, 2015 by Naix | |} ---- ---- ---- Why anyone not want more incentive to do endgame game is beyond me, im greatful there is something to level after atleast. Edited October 18, 2015 by Xorian | |} ---- Which as I've said, is fine if it's intended to be marginal progression of your character by EG, dailies, etc, but by adding a 80 hour BG grind into the equation you complicate the matter. People will always take the fast track, and the truth of the matter is that the fast-track(BG's) is not a overall fun way to approach the matter, and is incredibly limiting in terms of scope of available content. Putting yourself through a meat grinder for 80 hours is not necessarily helpful to player retention either. This goes back to the majority of responses here are from sources that are distant from the grind or are not reading the thread in its entirety. It's fine if you all did it as you went along (Which is a totally reasonable way of doing it if it was the intended, primary method). This isn't about how hard it used to be, it's about how time-consuming it is RELATIVE to other endgame content at the moment, and the fact that it is as significant as the gear-grind, which is incredibly short compared to the ability/amp grind. | |} ---- ---- I lost a ton too dude - I was never in a premade. I highly doubt it was a 25% win rate as well - unless you flat out counted it, people's idea of win/loss are horribly skewed. | |} ---- Probably cause you're Dominion which has different BG win rates. As Exile I probably had a 25-30% win rate, and it took me 40 hours of BG play over a 2x weekend to get 10amps, and 7abilities. Was this over the 2x weekend? Cause if so, after 8 hours you're 5/17 of the way there, then 8x3.2 is like 27ish hours or so, multiplied by 2 for non double prestige weekend and you're still looking at 54 hours as Dominion Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- More AMPS were added to pvp vendor so that pvp players would not have to rely on RNG drops or PvE content to fill out their AMP/Ability sets. | |} ---- Yeah, but it also supplied a fast-track for PVE players that basically omits EG, reputation, etc. Pick your poison: Months of daily farming VS 80 hours of PVP. Fun. | |} ---- I counted it over a 10 hour BG session Friday, it was roughly a 28% win ratio (Might not of counted one or two). Exiles have to not only win against premades, but also against Dominion which generally has a healthier PVP population. Most of the wins we had was against Exiles, that were not pre-mades. Even then, if it was shorter then my estimation, then that doesn't help either. Now you're looking at weeks-months of daily PVE grinding (rep, dailies, eg) VS 50 hours of PVP. That's out of wack too. Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- Nearly everyone but you is saying this, why is your experience so different then everyone elses? Not everyone does pvp. | |} ---- ---- ---- Because it's mostly vets commenting on a grind that was fundamentally different a few months ago and the majority of the fresh-50 player-base has yet to hit this specific grind. And if you don't do PVP you're going to be far behind players that do in terms of abilities/amps. Either PVP or PVE, the grind is not proportional to the rest of the endgame grind. Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- I definitely agree with this, mostly because, the rest of the end-game grinds have been significantly reduced since launch. The amp/ability point grind has also been significantly reduced from when EG was really the only option. (Something like 9.5 months) But, the reduction is not as significant as the some the others. Attunement Grind --> signficantly reduced, no longer requires 1 week (140) and 10 EGs, solo quests, adventures, silver dungeons, world bosses, or partial primal patterns Gear grind --> significantly reduced, since gear early in the game had a static number of rune slots that could not be rerolled, gear needed to be grinded over and over until you got a good piece with enough runeslots of the right colors. Rep grinds --> sgnificantly reduced, number of rep boosts in the game increases, protostar promissory notes If you're honestly worried about ridiculous grinds, I think runing is currently a much more ridiculous grind. I've really enjoyed discussing this with you. If I could offer a piece of constructive feedback, complaints on these forums tend to elicit the reaction from vets/players that you have seen. Constructive, specific, and particularly innovative suggestions are usually met with better dicussion, pros/cons, and in depth argument that Carbine occasionally listens to. Unfortunately the AMP/Ability grind thread has run so many times, including the reduced currency/glory/etc things discussed, and the best we got with f2p was increased drop rates and nothing really for alts. Edited October 18, 2015 by MedicMelawen | |} ---- ---- That really was the crux of my point. My suggestion was simply the suggestion I've found digging deep around these forums and on reddit. Add abilities/amps to the glory vendor, and lower the costs across the PVE/PVP sources to be more in tune with the rest of the endgame progression. Runing I cannot comment on, because I'm still a week out from raiding/set runes/etc, but I imagine it's already better if it happens along side raiding naturally, and if it's a matter of plat, at least you can obtain plat from a variety of sources in a efficient manner. Probably true, but it's not just my mentality..far from it. It's the mentality that has been imposed upon players in progression-based MMO's. Min maxing, efficiency, optimal paths..etc. Fighting against this mentality, whether it's a "good" mentality to have, would only hurt Carbine in the long run. You provide a more optimal path, players will take it, regardless of whether it's less fun or not. Edited October 18, 2015 by Krighten | |} ---- ---- ^ Partially this, yes. Plus the 80 hour PVP time estimate to full cap both is too long relative to the time estimate to get pre-raid ilvl80. | |} ---- So much this. I don't like only having the pvp option open if I want to fast track my amp/ability point pickups. | |} ---- I think because of the way EGs work period. You cap out your "xp" for the week, then start making gold. If they didn't cap XP, then they would need to let us make the same amount of gold from the quests that we do now after capping for the week. I personally like the system, but I can see where having them cap would be an issue in getting AB/amp points. Putting them on the glory vendor would be a lot better though. just stop | |} ----